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Post by Johnny Q Public on Aug 5, 2009 19:12:40 GMT -6
Well seeing as how no one posts around here anymore I figueed I would post a *I told you so post* check this out: blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/08/gop-senator-white-house-encroaching-on-first-amendment.htmlLook at the below aritcle: ABC News’ Rick Klein reports: A Republican senator is calling for the White House to suspend a new project that asks members of the public to flag “fishy” claims about President Obama’s health care plans, arguing that it raises privacy concerns and will serve to chill free speech. Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, is sending a letter to the White House today asking the president to “cease this program immediately” -- or to explain how Americans’ privacy will be protected if e-mails are forwarded to the White House as requested. “I am not aware of any precedent for a President asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed ‘fishy’ or otherwise inimical to the White House’s political interests,” Cornyn writes “I can only imagine the level of justifiable outrage had your predecessor asked Americans to forward emails critical of his policies to the White House. I suspect that you would have been leading the charge in condemning such a program -- and I would have been at your side denouncing such heavy-handed government action.” Yesterday, White House director of new media Macon Phillips wrote a blog posting urging readers to flag questionable claims about health care proposals. “There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.” Cornyn specifically asks whether those who quote the president’s past statements -- such as his 2003 statement that he was a “proponent” of single-payer care -- qualifies as “disinformation.” He also asks what actions the White House would take against those engaging in “fishy” speech. *************************************************** Gee so that means if I speak out against Healthcare reform and say I think it sucks ass, that means somoen can flag me and report me as ifshy...gee kinda sounds a little Orwellian. I wonder if the former president posted a release like this about "fishy" posts how many people would scream it's a violation of the first ammendment. so to some it up.... I TOLD YOU SO!!!
MY GOD 2010 CAN'T GET HERE FAST ENOUGH
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Post by Lone Wolf on Aug 6, 2009 18:36:12 GMT -6
Wow activity on the board! Always good.
Sadly Q, i think the sheep are still more interested in the fact we have a (half) black president, and that Bush is out of office. Things like the economy, uneployment, tax payers payign for ppls new cars ( cash for clunkers), Obama getting in the middle of a thing w/ a black guy getting arrested by a white cop ( guess whose side he picked!), and now censoring, those things are ignored. But hey! Its always fun to jsut say "CHANGE" even if nothing does. "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss"
Other notes:
THe new espn program "Homecoming" w/ rick reilly is lame. However, the theme musik "Homecoming" by Kanye West is cool. And i HATE rap. ( cues up West Tx Rednex theme)
Michael Crabtree is threatening to sit out the entire yr if the 49ers dotn pay hi a guarantee of 20 million$. insane. he hasnt even played in the nfl yet! let him sit.
Mike Vick is now a free man. ug. Shame, bcuz w/ Plaxico burress going to prison soon, thatd make for a helluva All Prison THug squad of Vick, Burress, Maurice Clarette, Oj Simpson, and Rae Carruth ( if u dont know about this guy, shame on u). honory players shall be Leonard Little, Lawrence Phillips, Bam Morris, Michael Irvin, and coached by Barry Switzer. If yo udont know what all these players have in common, u must be in a coma.
WTF is up w/ monday night RAW? if i c one mroe main event w/ john cena , hhh, and orton facing one another, i may stop watching. Orton = GOLD, but the whoel show is stale. And the guest host thing is stupid. For Gods sake, Jeremy Piven called Summerslam " Summerfest" on live tv. Ouch. I only watch SMACKDOWN! for The Hart Foundation, as its cool to see Bulldogs son, and anvils daughter now a days. Cody Rhodes and Ted Jr are ok too, but are green as shit. esp cody. Dont even ask about TNA or ECW, both are pretty bad right now, and i dont watch.
Yay for football season starting soon. AND MADDEN COMING OUT SOON!!!
Out of the navy and nejoying freedom over my life again, LOL. it IS nice!!!
This has turned too long, eps sincen obody reads its. holla!
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Post by LB! on Aug 11, 2009 15:18:26 GMT -6
I was going to just post a rolls eyes sort of post and leave but I think i'm going to rant instead.
This isn't censorship. An argument could be made that it has a chilling effect on free speech but only then if you assume both that the WH is making some kind of list and that there will be consequences for being on it, both of which are paranoid fantasies.
What really frustrates me about you guys is that you pick things like this, an (as far as i can tell) totally innocent program to gather information about what opponents of health care reform are saying to better respond to it, to be outraged about. Its political but there's nothing sinister about it and nothing about it stops people from doing anything. Neither of you have presented any idea as to what the government would be planning to do with people marked "fishy" and if you think the president is forming an e-mail enemies list you're absolutely living in a fantasy land.
What's really frustrating about this is that there are real civil rights abuses happening under the Obama administration right now that you SHOULD be outraged about. He's continued our rendition policies (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/08/11-8), continued indefinite detainment, and as far as I know hasn't ended the Bush wiretapping programs, an actual invasion of privacy, contrary to this very sinister e-mail forwarding scheme you're so worried about.
The fact that this program has made Republicans pretend to care even a tiny bit about privacy is ridiculous.
But instead you outrage about exactly the nothing's the Republicans want you to outrage about.
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Post by Johnny Q Public on Aug 11, 2009 18:05:40 GMT -6
Ahh yes, I say something against the party line and speak dissent about something I've actually researched and read, I'm just ranting to what the Repbulicans tell me to..wow this sounds jsut like the polictal speech coming out of the Whitehouse. It's also sounds like stuff coming out of the "unbiased new media." (which as my communications professors told me i
n college "there is no such thing as unbiased media) Never mind the fact that some of what Obama has done was the right course of action (I.E. he pulled the highjacked crew off the pirate boat a couple of months ago.)
Fact: The blog states the following this is pulled directly from the whitehouse.gov website.
"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."
THE ABOVE STATEMNT IS A VIOLATION OF THE 1ST AMENDMENT.
OVERSERVE:
The 1st amendment states the following "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "
Explain to me how the establishment of an email to report "fishy" statements is in accordance with above amendment?
Even further notice that there is no concise definition of what is considered "fishy?" This sounds suspiciously Big Brotherish ala 1984.
Now then a lot of the rumor and hearsay is actually people speaking out against aspects of the bill. Specifically the parts where it talks about the quality of care for the elderly, I don't have exact phraseology but it mentions something to the effect , mind you this is a crude translation "Old people deal with the pain cause your gonna die anyway."
Tell me hoenstly that if during the intial stages of the Iraqi war Buish established a email to report "fishy" statements about America's reasons for being in the gulf, every Democrat wouldn't be screaming the exact same thing. This is a prime example of a double standard. Consider the following someone made a picutre of Obama as the Joker, it was called unAmerican and racial, funny in 2001, Vanity Fair made a picture of Bush dressed as the Joker and it was called art. Again this is a prime example of double standard.
Lets call a spade a spade, if you look at the stats, this email wasn't created until Obama's approval ratings starting dropping, this is just Obama trying to do some damage control. Which coincidentally is also when he took up the Democrats favorite deflection technique, it's all Bushes fault.
I think we are at the point where were past blaming the former adminstration.
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Post by LB! on Aug 12, 2009 6:55:49 GMT -6
Did you read that statement or the First Amendment? Can you tell me how it does violate it?
(Hint: It doesn't)
There's absolutely no mention of rationing in anything beside delusional conservative fantasies.
More importantly, you do know that insurance companies let people die for profit every fucking day, right?
You didn't reply to a single thing I said. It sounds like the same thing you hear from the White House or the media because its the truth: You're parroting horseshit. This is a good reminder of why I don't bother with ya'll.
PS: Less than a year after a previous administration that got us into two wars and did its best to make sure its message of "Government doesn't work" proved true is absolutely not "past the point of blaming the previous institution." Actions have lasting consequences.
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Post by Calvin Constantine on Aug 12, 2009 23:09:53 GMT -6
So which is it, a nefarious Orwellian scheme to suppress dissent, OR poll driven political damage control?
By the way, the insurance companies are probably behind 90 percent of the disinformation floating around out there.
The notion of a soulless bureaucracy making decisions about who lives and who dies is all the more ridiculous in light of the fact that those decisions are presently made by insurance companies which exist solely to make money.
Here is what the bill actually says. Doctors are encouraged to engage patients in quintannual discussions on end-of-life care options. Presently, many of these decisions are often made at the last minute, leading to chaotic results that often contrast the true wishes of the patient. Under the proposal, doctors will receive reimbursment for engaging in these consultations. No patient will be required to take part in one.
Like LB, I often find myself in a difficult position vis a vis Obama. I wholeheartedly disagree with much of what he has done (TARP, Cash for Clunkers, the civil rights abuses mentioned above). However, he is subject to so much off-base criticism that I have to sometimes defend him.
For what it's worth, I am not exactly optimistic about the future of democracy in this country. Granted, the two parties are both awful; however, for much of the history of our republic, they have existed in a kind of symbiotic relationship which limits the damage either one can truly do. However, the Republicans continue to demonstrate that they are not serious about governing and cannot be taken seriously as a national party. Instead of showcasing political leaders like Paul Ryan and intellectuals like Ross Douthat, the GOP seems to have passed the mantle of leadership to Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin, two buffoons who are dismissed by most fair minded people. While I would much rather be governed by a Democratic majority, I fear an ultra-reactionary backlash against such a government.
Oh, by the way, HUSSEIN OBAMA GUNNA KEEL MY DOWN SYNDROME BAYBY.
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Post by LB! on Aug 13, 2009 1:17:03 GMT -6
Obama is at best a slightly progressive centrist but is increasingly proving himself to be not even that. I expected to be disappointed but the total lack of action on civil rights issues like ending Don't Ask Don't Tell has been worse than I expected, but its early in the term I guess. Its hard to be patient about that kind of thing, though.
I don't know if its the pressure from the right or an actual lack of interest in re-regulating the finance sector but it doesn't seem like any action at all has been taken to prevent more bank bailout or economic collapse situations, and rumors are persisting that he might be backing off on the demand for a public option in health care reform. I want to be optimistic, but its hard with our options.
I'm an "Obama supporter" because he's what we've got right now, and if we're lucky he might make some progress, which is a better chance than we'd have with the other guys.
I do worry about the "everything but tax cuts is socialism" reactionary trend, but I don't think that's going to translate into votes. Barring a traumatic event of which I can think of a large variety but i'm going to avoid mentioning, what we're seeing is hopefully a political rebalancing which might broaden the options available in mainstream american politics. But I think any predicting I could do there would basically be political fan-fiction anyway, so i'm just rambling.
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