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Post by Lone Wolf on Sept 8, 2008 13:58:49 GMT -6
[glow=blue,2,300]Mets' Billy Wagner will be out through 2009 season [/glow]By RONALD BLUM, AP Baseball Writer 44 minutes ago
NEW YORK - New York Mets closer Billy Wagner needs elbow surgery that will sideline him through the 2009 season. The five-time All-Star has been sidelined since Aug. 3 and the Mets said Monday that he has a torn medial collateral ligament in his left elbow and a torn flexor pronator, which is a muscle in the forearm.
Wagner, a 37-year-old left-hander, will have surgery later this week.
He is owed $10.5 million next year, the final guaranteed season in $43 million, four-year contract with the Mets. The team has an $8 million option for 2010 with a $1 million buyout.
New York began Monday with a two-game lead over Philadelphia in the NL East. The Mets are 22-11 in Wagner's absence.
Wearing a protective sleeve on his left elbow, Wagner tested his arm Sunday with disappointing results. Between games of a day-night doubleheader against the Phillies, he went to the mound in a virtually empty Shea Stadium and faced teammate Gustavo Molina.
A wild Wagner hit the reserve catcher on the left foot with his 13th pitch and walked off the field to consult with a trainer and the Mets' coaching staff.
"It's bittersweet," manager Jerry Manuel said Sunday. "Bitter in the sense that we lost Billy Wagner probably for the remainder of the year."
Wagner was 0-1 with a 2.30 ERA and 27 saves in 34 chances, and he is sixth on the career saves list with 385.
"He was trying to get us to activate him today," Mets general manager Omar Minaya said Sunday. "The last pitch he threw, he really felt some discomfort in the elbow area. He didn't want to risk it."
Luis Ayala, acquired from Washington last month in a trade, is 5-for-6 in save opportunities for the Mets.
Ayala allowed an unearned run in the ninth Sunday night. Before that, Mets relievers had not allowed a run in 23 innings since Aug. 31.
Still, Wagner's loss is a huge one for a bullpen that has been unreliable much of the year. Manuel has mixed and matched as much as possible with his relievers during the past month.
"Anytime you have a guy such as him and you lose him, it becomes a big challenge," Manuel said. "I think they have matured somewhat down there very well. We have some candidates down there to get outs. We just have to continue matching them up."
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AP Baseball Writer Mike Fitzpatrick contributed to this report.
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Post by Calvin Constantine on Sept 9, 2008 0:59:52 GMT -6
I don't think this is terrible for the Mets.
Wagner is a player in decline. His velocity is way down from his peak and he's already blown seven saves this year.
They'll eat one more year of his contract while he rehabs, then buy him out. The beauty of this is that Wagner is a clubhouse cancer, so he'll be away from the team. He's the kind of guy who has no problem calling out his teammates in the papers, but if somebody says something nasty about him, he gets pissy.
This offseason, Omar Minaya will grossly overpay for Frankie Rodriguez. Boston, the Yankees, and the Cubs are set at closer. The Dodgers first priority this offseason will be re-upping Manny; if they can't do that, they'll probably go full blown into a youth movement. The Angels and Rodriguez are far apart.
That leaves the Mets as the only team standing who could afford to pay Rodriguez. Expect something absurd like 5 years, 100 million. This is silly money for a relief pitcher. Many young stud closers flame out relatively early; furthermore, tying up so much money in a player that pitches 80 or so innings a year is not financially astute.
However, 26 year old fireballers just don't hit the open market that often. Omar has made bad deals in the past, but seems to have the support of the Wilpons (probably because they still have nightmares about the Steve Phillips era).
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Post by Calvin Constantine on Sept 9, 2008 1:14:49 GMT -6
Actually, on second thought, I'm not so sure about the Rodriguez situation.
The Mets will probably pick up Delgado's option. This will be a mistake.
They're going into 2009 with Santana, Pelfrey, and Maine, but I have no idea who the other two starters are going to be. There's been talk about giving Heilman a shot, which would probably be an unmitigated disaster. The top of the system is bare from the Santana deal, so I don't see any youngsters emerging.
This means that it's possible the Mets make a run at Sabbathia or Sheets. Such a move would make the cost of acquiring Rodriguez prohibitive.
All in all, the Mets will probably be a significantly worse team in 2009, as will the Phillies, who will also be faced with some big decisions this offseason.
The shine on the Braves seems to have worn out; I don't see the replacements for the Smoltzes and Chippers forthcoming.
What this means is that the time might be ripe for another young Florida Marlins team to make a run to the top-you heard it here first!
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Post by Dan Hampton on Sept 9, 2008 9:57:13 GMT -6
with delgado's resurgence, it almost makes sense to pick up his option. i may have the numbers wrong, but i believe it's a $12m option or a $4m buyout. so basically, for $8m they'll have a first baseman who'll realistically hit 25 HRs and drive in 80 runs, and provide solid defense. not a great deal, but not too shabby overall.
as far as the rotation, you'll have santana, pelfrey, maine, oliver perez, and a 5th guy. the idea of one of the pelfrey-maine-perez trio being your #4 starter is pretty great; you could have me be the #5 starter in 09 and the team would still get 85 wins. not to say i'd be against going after sabathia or sheets; i just think the pricetag is going to wind up being too ridiculous.
i'm with you on the k-rod skepticism; i feel like there's too much going on in that motion to know where he'll be in 5 years. he's also definitely not worth the money someone's going to pay him. i'd rather see the mets go after a brian fuentes type guy.
with a healthy ryan church and one of the nick evans/daniel murphy combo manning left field, i think the mets could be around the same level next year as this year. they've been getting a lot of unexpected production from guys this year[easley, delgado, tatis], which is the only reason i could possibly foresee a regression next year.
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Post by Calvin Constantine on Sept 9, 2008 21:40:53 GMT -6
I disagree with this line of thinking. If you bring Delgado back, you're paying him 12 million. The best case scenario is Delgado posting an OPS of about .850. First off, I think Delgado's performance will regress to the norm over the course of a full season next year. I can't pay a 37 year old 12 million hoping he's going to give me an .850 OPS. And I love Carlos Delgado.
If you're going to argue from a fiscal standpoint, why not take the buyout at 4 million, and that gives you a 4 million dollar window to bring in another player.
If I'm running the Mets, I buy out Delgado's option and let Murphy play first base. I hear they want him to learn to play second base in the fall instructional league; I don't think he has the athleticism for the position. So you have Murphy at first base. At that point, I take a flier on a guy like Mark Kotsay or even a Juan Rivera (who can be gotten super cheap) to play LF, or even turn it over to Evans. At that point, you're looking at:
SS-Ole 1B-Murphy 3B-Wright CF-Beltran RF-Church LF-Evans/Kotsay/Whoever C-Schneider/Castro 2B-Sinkhole
OR, they could make a run at the criminally underrated Adam Dunn, who could play LF or 1B and hit for a better clip than Delgado. With righthanded David Wright, switchhitting Carlos Beltran, and lefthanded Adam Dunn in the middle of your order, you're going to get a lot of exploitable matchups.
As for starting pitching, you would have to put a gun to my head to get me to commit any money to Oliver Perez. I like Fuentes too. The best bet might be to make a run at a second tier guy like Kyle Lohse or Jon Garland.
In reality, it's almost impossible to say what's actually going to happen. If the Mets make the playoffs (and they almost certainly will), the NL is wide open. Arizona's vaunted two aces are breaking down. The Dodgers are very young and mistake prone. I'm not all over Chicago's nuts like a lot of people are, that's a lineup you can shut down. The Phillies are what they are, about four players short of anything serious. I think Omar is a pretty reactionary, results oriented guy (this is not a compliment), so what they do probably depends a lot on how they finish.
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Post by Dan Hampton on Sept 11, 2008 14:27:08 GMT -6
ollie perez is a tough nut to crack. if it's a big game, you're almost guaranteed to see him throw one of those 7 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 8 K games. but if it's may and he's facing the pirates, it's a fucking trainwreck. i don't understand why. i feel like with rick peterson out of the picture, ollie might actually start getting some consistency. i wouldn't give him huge money, but i wouldn't be against giving him 6-8 mil a year. even if you count him as the #4, he's still a helluva 4. i think the main problem with the mets' rotation is that maine, pelfrey, and perez are all guys that are better than most 3s or 4s on other teams, but still below the better 2s, if that makes any sense. it's like the mets have an ace, three 3s, and a 5 to be named later.
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Post by Lone Wolf on Sept 12, 2008 12:05:00 GMT -6
Just heard on Sportscenter that William Wagner has said " I have played my last game as a Met". Ouch! Good bye billy... hello pedro felaciano? good luck w/ THAT metopolitan fans!LOL
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Post by Lone Wolf on Sept 15, 2008 9:54:12 GMT -6
Shaky bullpen costs Mets again Updated: September 14, 2008, NEW YORK (AP) - A dreadful bullpen is making it awfully difficult for the New York Mets to avoid another September meltdown.
It seems manager Jerry Manuel has tried nearly every reliever in multiple roles. So there's not much left for him to do besides hand someone the ball and cross his fingers.
Fill-in closer Luis Ayala gave up a go-ahead homer to pinch-hitter Greg Norton, and the Atlanta Braves rallied for five runs in the ninth inning Sunday and a 7-4 victory that trimmed New York's tenuous NL East lead to 1 1/2 games.
"These are tough losses, especially this time of the year," Manuel said. "We've been dealt many tough blows. We've got to see if we can make it back."
Wasting two homers by David Wright and a strong start from Oliver Perez, the Mets lost for the ninth time in 30 games. Their lead could be cut to one game - two in the loss column - if second-place Philadelphia beats Milwaukee in the second game of a day-night doubleheader Sunday. The Phillies won the opener 7-3.
The Mets squandered a seven-game cushion with 17 to play last year, letting Philadelphia charge past them for the division title in one of the worst collapses in baseball history.
Desperately trying to erase those painful memories, New York had 17 games remaining coming into this series and dropped two of three to the fourth-place Braves (67-83).
"Coming down the stretch at this point, every loss will probably be a reminder of what happened last year," Manuel said. "What we have to do as a team is get through it. We've got to finish."
That's been a problem all season.
The Mets have 27 blown saves - they began the day tied for third-most in the majors. This was their 11th blown save in the ninth inning. New York entered Sunday tied for third-most in that category as well, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.
"We need to pick each other up. We all know they're trying to do their best," Carlos Beltran said. "Right now, things aren't working for them, but that doesn't mean they're not going to pitch better."
Missing injured closer Billy Wagner for the rest of the year, the bullpen failed to hold an eighth-inning lead for Johan Santana in the opener of Saturday's doubleheader and flopped again Sunday.
Despite the deflating loss, New York had some fun after the game with a familiar hazing ritual. Young players were dressed up as Olympic swimmers - fake medals, goggles, skintight swimsuits - as the team left town for its final road trip of the season.
"The next Michael Phelps," a smiling Pedro Martinez said, pointing at 6-foot-7 Mike Pelfrey. "Don't rip it. You're still going to have to wear it."
Ayala (2-9) began the ninth with a 4-2 lead but allowed consecutive singles to Casey Kotchman and pinch-hitter Kelly Johnson. Norton then drove a full-count delivery into the Mets' right-field bullpen - appropriately - for a 5-4 Atlanta edge.
It was Norton's third pinch-hit homer this season.
"I tried to throw my sinker down and away. The ball stayed in the middle," Ayala said.
After he was lifted, the Braves tacked on two more. Gregor Blanco hit an RBI double off Pedro Feliciano, and Corky Miller's sacrifice fly against Brian Stokes made it 7-4.
Jorge Julio (2-0) worked a scoreless eighth for the win.
The Mets tried to make a comeback of their own in the bottom of the ninth, putting their first two batters on. But Mike Gonzalez retired the next three for his 11th save in 12 chances.
"Our bullpen the entire series held for us. Both wins were because of the bullpen," Braves manager Bobby Cox said. "We're going to help the Mets as much as we can when we play the Phillies six times, so it's our job to be up for every game and go at it as hard as we can."
Atlanta slugger Chipper Jones had three hits, including an RBI double, in his final game at Shea Stadium, where he's had so much success that he named one of his sons Shea.
The All-Star third baseman, who missed Saturday's doubleheader with a stiff back, finished with a .313 batting average, 19 homers and 55 RBIs in 88 games at the ballpark.
"It was fitting, with all the close games the two teams have played over the years," Jones said. "We're a prideful bunch over here. We've been sitting where they are sitting now many times. ... We're not going to roll over. If they're going to beat us, they're going to earn it."
Wright matched a career high with four hits. He had three RBIs and hit both homers off starter Jorge Campillo.
New York has 14 games left. A four-game series beginning Monday night at Washington will be followed by three in Atlanta next weekend.
Notes Wright's 12th career multihomer game and third this season gave him a career-high 31 home runs, surpassing last season's total by one. He also hit a two-run shot in the first inning Saturday night. ... Braves SS Yunel Escobar (sore hamstring) grounded out as a pinch hitter in the seventh.
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Post by Calvin Constantine on Sept 15, 2008 10:29:32 GMT -6
The Mets are going to make the playoffs in all probability. They're only a game up on the Phillies, but they're two up in the loss column, 83-65 to 83-67. Even if the Phillies catch them they'll still probably get the wild card. However, the bullpen issues have to be psychologically brutal for the team.
The Phillies have 3 with Atlanta, 3 with Florida, 3 with Atlanta, and 3 with Washington.
The Mets have 4 with Washington, 3 with Atlanta, 4 with the Cubs, and 3 with Florida.
The Brewers have 3 with the Cubs, 3 with the Reds, 3 with the Pirates, and 3 with the Cubs.
The Astros have 1 with the Cubs, 3 with Florida, 4 with Pittsburgh, 3 with the Reds, and 3 with the Braves.
If the Phillies and Mets tie, two things could happen.
If they tie and both finish with a better record than the Brewers/Astros/other wild card also rans, the Mets win the division on the basis of a stronger head to head record this year and the Phillies are the wild card.
If they tie and one of the central teams finishes ahead, there will be a one game playoff in Philadelphia on Monday, September 29th. The Phillies won home field in a coin flip.
If some sort of insane three way (or four way!) tie happens, god knows what will happen.
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Post by Calvin Constantine on Sept 15, 2008 10:47:45 GMT -6
All that being said, I do think the Phillies will catch the Mets.
The Mets bullpen is beleaguered and they have no days off left.
For the Phillies, Myers, Moyer, and Hamels are all dealing and Ryan Howard is red hot. Myers has been totally dominant since his recall from the minors; last night his line was 9 IP, 2 H, 1 ER. Prince Fielder hit a solo home run. Other than that, The Brewers got two runners to first base.
NL MVP: Who's in the conversation?
Carlos Delgado has been the most "clutch" hitter in the NL.
David Wright has had an all around great season.
Ryan Howard leads the majors in HRs and RBIs.
Albert Pujols leads the league in OBP and Slugging, all with a torn ligament in his arm.
Mannybeingmanny has helped the Dodgers overtake Arizona.
As for Cy Young, the answer is Lincecum.
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Post by Dan Hampton on Sept 15, 2008 15:23:10 GMT -6
the phillies have a better chance to catch the mets because while the mets do 4 with the cubs, the phillies are doing 3 with atlanta. kind of a talent differential there.
that being said, both teams are playoff teams. the mets bullpen is what it is. the team isn't too bad at coming through in the clutch; i wish there was a way to find out how many of those 27 blown saves ended in wins for the mets, because i feel a few definitely have.
as far as mvp, i'm counting out both wright and delgado; when you have two players from the same team gunning for it they normally cannibalize it. what i am intrigued by is the fact that if delgado gets decent regular season MVP consideration and then goes on to win playoff MVP honors, his contract would automatically re-up at $16mm. interesting, if highly unlikely, subplot to watch.
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Post by Calvin Constantine on Sept 21, 2008 18:05:56 GMT -6
The more I watch, the more I'm convinced Omar Minaya needs to be fired.
The Mets are like the San Jose Sharks of baseball. I don't know if anyone watches hockey, but the Sharks are a trendy Stanley Cup pick at the start of every season because they have stars like Joe Thornton, Jonathan Cheechoo, Patrick Marleau, and Evgeni Nabakov. But their spare parts suck.
Look at that fucking disaster of a bullpen. Nobody would insure Wagner's contract beyond two years, so the Mets have to eat all the money left on his deal. The Castillo signing. The Alou signing.
If Jerry Manuel gets shitcanned, I really hope he gets a job somehwere else, because he deserves it. He's took over a team that really just wanted to quit and it looks like they're going to go to the playoffs.
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Post by Dan Hampton on Sept 23, 2008 17:26:17 GMT -6
i'm going to be furious if jerry manuel doesn't get an extension. whether or not they make the playoffs...even if they lost EVERY GAME from here on out he'd have led them to a 52-41 record. and that's about a 90 win season when you stretch it out to 162 games, which would have been more than enough for them to be in a better position now.
the bullpen needs to get buried. they tease with streaks like they had two weeks ago [23 bullpen IP in a row without a run] then just implode constantly. i can't stand this anymore, i just want the season to be over either way. jesus.
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Post by Lone Wolf on Sept 24, 2008 22:41:20 GMT -6
No posts from the HUGE MET FANS tonight? Im stunned! Not really. In case y'all were watching winning baseball, aka THE BREWERS, lemme recap. You boy OLIVER PEREZ was given a 5-1 lead in like the 5th inning. He proceeds to walk everyone on the roster, give up the lead(!!!), and exit. He is also the 1st mets pitcher in a long time to have OVER A 100 WALKS in a year. Impressive. Now enter the bull pen. Ne-ways, fast worward to the the bottom of the 9th. Its tied 6-6. the mets have had the LEAD RUNNER ON IN THE LAST 5 INNINGS, and nobody scored. Mets have a runner on rd, the guy at the plate has a 3-0 count. pay attention, all u screaming met fans! Guess what happens? David Wright stikes out on a pitch that was ball four. THe cubs walk the next to hitters delgado and and beltran. Then Mr Concusssion aka "Run em Out there anyways" Ryan Church grounds out meekly, leading to a force out at hte plate. To top off this gr8 inning,Ramon Castroflails away lamley for strike 3. Now, the mets prized releif pick up, Luis Ayala ( hint: NEVER get a pitcher from the Nats. Ever) comes in, gives up a single to Ryan Theriot, who then steals 2nd. Derrek Lee then doubles him in, Aramis Ramirez follows w/a a 2 ru nshot. THne the shot of the night!!! The loyal, loving, and supported NEW YORK fans LEAVE. They dont stick around to support hte mets in the bottom of the 10th. STREAMING for the exits. very, very classy , ny. The mets stranded 10 runners over hte last 5 innings.
Minaya just got a 4 yr extension for this? For Luis Castillo? For RICARDO RINCON ( nice pickup, LOL)? For a team imploding 2 yrs in the row? This team doesnt DESERVE the play offs. Milwakee does, esp CC Sabathia. And u all want Jery" Hey, hes only kidna concussed" Manual to lead this team to battle next yr? The last 10 games, NYM are 4-6. Is that a reflection of leader ship? And they REWARD THE GM for this?? Hey- matt millen is now avail, become he could cross over to baseball, and draft the mets soem RELIEVERS. cant have worse luck then he idd w/ RECEIEVERS.
NOW. My team is the braves. We suck this yr. However, we are YOUNG, and rebuilding. Our payroll is 10th highest in the league, but most of it is tied up in old timers like smoltz and glavine, and hampton, and chipper. u all ahve the 2ND HIGHEST.
I only post this stuff, bcuz when the mets win, the Ny ppl come and start talking about career highs for david right, mvps for delgado, etc al. But on nights like tonight, might quiet on the ranch, huh? Just food for thought....
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Post by Sylver Morrigan on Sept 25, 2008 12:40:20 GMT -6
no you post that stuff because you like to antagonize people and stir shit up. and that's a fact.
another fact is the braves totally suck, no matter what the fucking payroll is.
ooh so the organization gave omar four more years. wtf?!? compare the records under willie and jerry. if you extrapolate jerry's win percentage, it would put them at at least 90 wins over a season. and that's not just dan#1's amazing mathmatical skills, it's a FACT. is that bad? fuck no, it's not bad.
and yet another fact is that the mets have done fucking amazing this year when you factor in the bullpen, imho. a lesser team would have imploded with the shit that's gone on in that bullpen. but what do the mets do? attempt to rock as hard as they can.
delgado for mvp bitches.
oh, and i called what the world series would be four months ago. i refuse to repeat it now because i'm supersitious. but i bet dan#1 knows who i called.
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